Shop A.O. Hi, Or you could stay with the 3 phase and use 3 elements wired 3 phase. I dont know very much about electronics so simple instructions would be helpful. If you actually wanted to boil, make into vapor, that gram of water it would take an additional 2400 J/g. How to Test a Water Heater Element With a Multimeter. If I install three 10 amp 120v AC switching SSR’s staged to dump excess solar AC at say 125v, 128v and 131v this would reduce the large voltage drop of a single SSR. All customers get FREE Shipping on orders over $25 shipped by Amazon. Thank you for your comment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Immersion_heate... and I know the ones made for use with mains power are pretty easy to find, although I am less sure about immersion heaters intended for a 12 volt supply. http://scoraigwind.co.uk/tristar-follower-to-control-ac-heaters/. Typical uses include dump loads, in this application extra energy from a wind turbine or solar panels are used to heat water from excess power the systems generate. It might be easier to just buy one. heat it from 25 C to 50 C, that would only take about 100 J/g. There are cheap 220v inverters (modified sine wave) on ebay. less taps for lower power 12 V lightbulb in a box high power 12 / 24 V halogen floodlight - not exactly heating element but heats alot everything placed in front of it heating elements are usually … Anyway, suppose you have a liter ( = 1 kg = 1000 g) of water, and you want to make it merely warm. With the screw terminals exposed, disconnect both wires from the electrical heating element. However we are just discussing the ways of heating water as a dump load with extra power that would otherwise be lost. There are other methods but this is the most reliable and accurate. What would you suggest I do or is this even possible? I mean, the amount of energy needed to heat water from 25 C to 100 C, is about 300 joules, per gram of water ( 300 J/g). They will be destroyed. You need an insulated element. Warren. 1/3 of 3000 watts is 1000 watts. Any chance you could share how you are dealing with the temperature in the tank and preventing it from getting too hot? Possibly just as direct as possible using a off the shelf element to supplement the hard wired upper or lower element. Additionally, when heavy use exhausts the hot water, there is a significant delay before hot water is available again. They are even programmable through a serial cable from your laptop or desktop computer.) as i am a newbie to the solar area. If this does not fix the issues, additional RV water heater troubleshooting will be needed. This arrangement needs very little special wiring, works with normal water heaters and their thermostats, and is “fail safe” because the Tristar controller is always there doing its job if the AC heating is not needed. Hi Tankless is NOT going to work. DC water heating with Diversion load elements are typically used with either 12, 24 or 48 volt systems. Appliances; Parts & Accessories; Water Heater Replacement Parts; RV Water Heaters, Pumps & Accessories; RV Water Heater Thermostats, Elements & Parts; RV Water Heaters; Water … STEP 4 Mount one solid state relay (SSR) to the outside of your hot water tank for each element you will be using. item 5 DC Water … Does anybody know how I could make a kind of "heating element" with 9 volt battery(ies). You could simply hook the positive and negative from the turbine to the element. A. O. Smith's Signature 12-Gallon Compact 6-Year Limited Warranty Point of Use Electric Water Heater is a good fit for specialized applications and small Nigel Goodwin Super Moderator. You are a legend in these parts. Brady, Thank you for you comment. * A secondary dump load such as an air heater/resistor. The only issue with PWM is it is fast. They fit most standard electric water heaters with screw-in elements. Will try to finish this article with diagrams very soon.Jody. I will always give you credit. Specializing in battery charge controllers for wind turbines, including very large capacities and unique capabilities not found in other wind/solar controllers. Set the tip of 1 prong in the center of 1 of the water heater element’s screws. The forums are retiring in 2021 and are now closed for new topics and comments. I dont know very much about … The inverter will sense this as unstable input voltage or low voltage and shut down. As I don’t have it connected to any battery charging system or grid tie it was suggested I look into hooking the three phase up configured to produce either 120 V or 240 V to dump load to stove elements or if possible a water tank. Can I run the water heater with only 1 element wind powered and one hard wired shut off ,,if it takes 10 extra hour to heat up water that is fine by me. If your batteries only need 100 watts to hold the voltage at the bulk voltage but your solar array is making 1000 watts, PWM will make sure the circuit (solar array to batteries) is connected 10% of the time and open circuited 90% of the time just like the first of the three PWM examples in the diagram below. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Streetwize-SWHE-Water-Hea... you can buy one from amazon in the Uk for £2.99 it really isn't worth making one. Answer Standard relays (coil type) cannot handle that type of switching. http://scoraigwind.co.uk/tristar-follower-to-control-ac-heaters/. Hugh is always trying new and better ways of doing things and he documents his projects well. Uses: Livestock water tank de-icer (low amp draw means you won't drain your battery as … Sorry spell check. The only thing I don’t understand is how do you keep the water heater from over heating? Great articles on this site, I really enjoy them! Do you think this is a workable way to dump excess AC to a 120v hot water heater? You could simply hook the positive and negative from the turbine to the element. As an example, for calculating the resistance of a 12 volt, 24 watt, heater, use the formula P =V*I = V*(V/R) = V^2/R P = 24 W. V =12 V. Solve P = V^2/R for R. Get R … Regarding the problem of designing a heating element, the usual way to do that is to start with some desired amount of power dissipation, like 24 W, 240 W, etc, and then assume your heating element is a resistor, and use Ohm's law to solve for the size of resistor needed for a particular voltage or current. Do you mind if I refer to your website from this one for this or other information? No more dangerous and expensive propane or waiting for a 110 volt outlet. Hi Jody, just want to add to my previous comment/question that using my grid tie inverter for off grid would only be done if the grid was down for an indefinite time. Electric tank water heaters are an excellent choice to make a dump load for your solar, wind or micro hydro power system as they are easy to get, cheap, already insulated and have holes to mount low voltage water heating elements. Thanks for your comment…Jody, I would be really interested in the finished product, wiring diagram etc. Hi, Most 12 volt models seem to be about 800 watts which will require much more current than your 2 amps. This would require extra components that are not cheap. That way you can set your system to turn each element on and off independently depending on how much solar, wind or micro hydro you have available at the time. I hope I have answered your question but please tell me if I didn’t. Well done and thanks for sharing…Jody. A 12 Volt DC water heating element should be used with just 12-15 Volts, a 24V DC water heating element with just 24-30 Volts. { 26 comments… read them below or add one }, I have dealt with these issues in many different ways over the years but have found that I am very happy with using a phase-control AC SSR to manage the AC heater and driving this by a circuit that is activated by the PWM pulses to the DC load. 4.9 (9) "Wonderful service" "Excellent supplier" Contact Supplier. You would definitely use a fuse or breaker for each element/dump load. Set the body of the multimeter on the ground at the base of the water heater. Great for RVs, heating stock tanks, or converting your AC water heater. Oct 26, 2005 #2 kevinhaag said: Does anybody know how I could make a kind of "heating element" with 9 volt battery(ies). Many miles beyond, or as far as the car will travel. Although many hot water heaters have a female pipe thread (FPT), some have a square hole with a threaded bolt hole in each corner. For those of you reading the comments please take the time to go to http://scoraigwind.co.uk to learn more about wind, solar, microhydo and anything electrical. In other words, touch the red lead to one screw terminal and the black lead to the … Hi, I am setting up a test project with a home built wind turbine and will collect data from turbine power production versus wind speed, temp to a data logger. I would just need to know if the alternator is wired delta (3 wires) or wye (3 or 4 wires). The first problem is that if there is ever a problem with your inverter, your dump load is non functional and it only takes one really long overcharge for your battery bank to be damaged. Thank you for any help. 2 Pieces (Min Order) 9 YRS Dongguan Detai Electrical Appliance Co., Ltd. 96.9%. Don't forget to add a thermostat. The second problem is hot water elements are usually high wattage 2500-5000 watts which could be enough to consume all the electricity your inverter(s) can produce, depending on the size of your system. your main hot water heater if you have a large, consistent supply of electricity such as a good quality water turbine or high power wind turbine. Electric water heaters are a relatively recent alternative to the traditional gas-powered heater design. However if you have a better suggestion like the wye configuration I am open to that. The disadvantage is that over time, heat escapes through the tank wall and the water cools down, activating the heating system to heat the water back up, so investing in a tank with better insulation improves this standby efficiency. In other words, I simply assume all the heat from the 24 watt heater is going into, and staying in, the 1000 g mass of water. You will first need to verify there is 12 volt battery power and to make sure the LP is on and supplying unit. You and I have spoken over the years as I used to build water turbines like the “Stream Engine” with Paul Cunningham. They're called, "immersion heater". Or maybe less water. Schneider Electric (all of their inverters and charge controllers have one). Related Products. Up to 5 years warranty. I have 2 c40 and 1 ts-45. I only have solar running for now until I can figure out best way to wire up and size of elements to use. The SSRs also must be able to be triggered (turned on) at 12 volts as we will be using one of the 12 volt relay drivers already installed in your charge controller or inverter. Measured 132 vdc at 14.5 amps Thank you. Plus he provides all of this for free. Is that like regular oven stove elements like 1200 watt or 1500watt or possibly even larger for 240 like 2500watts? My grid tie inverter trips off at 134 vac single phase and can also be adjusted. Electricity heats the metal loops on the elements, which then heats the surrounding water. Best article I have read thus far on how to do this – but I could surely use the finishing touches. PWM stands for pulse width modulation meaning the load (or solar array) is switched on and off several times per second in trying to hold the battery voltage as steady as possible. Thanks for contacting me. Lots of YouTube videos on this subject. Unlike the shower-in-a-box, there are few parts involved in the tankless water heater. Your article is a great way for off grid where PV supplies DC directly to battery bank via charge controller/inverter. Get two of these 1A CAR-CUP-HEATER from Bed Bath and Beyond $9.97 or eBay $3.47 with free shipping. Love your site. A typical household kettle may be 2 to 3000 watts -. Get smart with the Thesis WordPress Theme from DIYthemes. The first question I get when folks decide to go this route is: Why can’t I just use the output of the inverter to dump electricity (when the batteries are full) into the existing water heating elements using the factory thermostats? I have a 48 volt three phase 2000 watt PMG I ordered from china and fitted it to the turbine. If you have any need for extra electricity you could divert the solar modules (once the water is hot) into an MPPT tracking controller and charge a 24 or 48 volt battery bank. I hear you on the standby heat loss. If you are using an AC thermostat and you are putting DC through it to trigger the relay, expect the thermostat to wear out prematurely, catch fire or have the contacts of the thermostat weld together. 50% of 1000 watts is 500 watts. Insert the red lead into the "ohms" connector and the black lead into the "common" connector of the meter. Here is my idea for using a 120v AC hot water heater as a dump load. Things You'll Need. .. A typical electric heating unit is wired to a 220-volt circuit. Try connecting your inverter for a second and then disconnecting for a second and back on for a second and see what happens. the resistance of some length of wire is proportional to its length, for a particular kind, and thickness, of wire, and there are tables and stuff, for figuring this out. It is a pleasure to hear from you. I am aware of the potential shock hazard. I can turn on the hard wire to help speed it up if need be. As an example, for calculating the resistance of a 12 volt, 24 watt, heater, use the formula P =V*I = V*(V/R) = V^2/R, P = 24 W. V =12 V. Solve P = V^2/R for R. Get R = V^2/P. Just make sure they are rated for DC current and not just AC as most are. They are usually available in the following configurations: You will notice the voltages above are somewhat higher than the nominal battery voltages. Other uses include livestock heaters to keep water from freezing. Most Helpful Member . I would match it up with a 300-400 watt or so element. What Does This Mean? I wonder if you will be finishing the article : Making a dump load with a hot water tank. Are you able to reconnect the windings of the alternator to series wye? Most water heaters have two heating elements—one near the top of the tank, another located further down. You can buy 12 and 24V water heaters, if not in your camping store then check where the local truckies buy their supplies ;)With less 5amps I see little to no success here.Keep in mind your home water kettle uses 1800-2200W to bring your amount of water to a boil.And as already pointed out you need an insulated heating coil as otherwise you not only risk a short but also that your heating element fails after a few uses. Touch the two leads to one each of the screw terminals on the heating element. You are in … If you have even one 2000 watt heating element that is 167 amps your dump controller will have to be rated for. I would match it up with a 300-400 watt or so element. Look forward to reading the rest of the article. 3 years ago. If you want a hot shower, all you need is a 12v pump, fresh water tank, propane tank and a 12V connection. I am watching for a used 5 gallon water tank on CL. While it is possible, it is likely not a good idea. Good work, and when the hot water gets too hot (which probably never happens) you have a thermostat and relay to disconnect the solar modules. What 12v thermostat could I use? You can make hot water with your 400 watt turbine but the rated voltage of the turbine would decide how we could do it. If your equipment already has relay driver’s you will not need the Morningstar RD. You can usually get DC SSRs that are good for 40 or 60 amps at up to 160 or 220 VDC that are triggered by 3-24 volts on places like eBay. You will need one SSR per heating element. How do I use a standard hot water heater (tank style) as a dump load that will make free hot water? I have ordered a 2000 watt 110 volt water water heater element and matching thermostat. US $15.00-$18.00 / Piece. You have the potential of 2200 watts (8 modules @ 275 watts) and you are able to make 1914 watts of heat (132VDC x 14.5 amps). That is an efficiency of 87% with no charge controllers or other special components. SSR’s can get hot so it is a must that each SSR be mounted to a large piece of aluminum or heat sink as shown below. EXAMPLE #1 Your solar array produces 1000 watts but your batteries only need 500 watts to hold the bulk voltage. Heat water for showers while driving your RV or boat. 12 volt system: 450 watt and 900 watt X 2 elements =, 24 volt system: 720 watt, 900 watt and 1440 watt X 2 elements =. You could rectify the 48VAC to DC with a 3 phase bridge rectifier as found in old Ford alternators and use a couple of 1000 watt 48 volt water heating elements or air heating elements to make things simple. They had a hysteresis (difference) of a few volts and would turn the solar array off at about 14.4 volts and back on at roughly 13.2 volts in a 12 volt nominal system. I am also grateful you left a comment as your “Tristar Follower” with the phase angle control solid state relay (SSR) is one of the coolest things I have seen in awhile. He is one of the smartest fellows electrically I have met and he taught me so much about electricity, efficiency, water turbines, solar and simple things like voltage drop and really gave me an excellent background in AC and DC electricity for which I am grateful. Each heating element for water heater is electrical-resistant. Another option is the Morningstar RD relay driver. Could you answer one question about setting up a hot water heater as a dump load? Is that how you plan to get 120VAC 3 phase out of a 48VAC alternator or am I misunderstanding something? Jody. You may have to use multiple units and place them in a metal vented electrical box or purchase a manufactured unit. Whereas gas heaters heat water with a burner that produces a flame, electric heaters instead use electricity to heat an element. Use one or more of these heating elements with a charge control designed for load diversion, such as the Xantrex C40 or C60, Morningstar TS-45 or TS-60 or the Outback FlexMax 60 to turn your excess power into hot water. Article is a 3000 watt dump load other methods but this is a great site with lots of information design... Too hot, where do you need a special DC thermostat or something turn. People think please tell me if I refer to your website from this one for this other... A DC thermostat which you may have done really well matching the MPPV of the time the PWM controller. Equipment already has relay driver ’ s you will not need the Morningstar RD open circuit, and longer. 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As soon as I am watching for a used 5 gallon water tank CL. Way to how to make a 12 volt water heating element this – but I can figure out best way to do –! Inside the tank, including very large capacities and unique capabilities not in. Ignores heat lost to surroundings last longer delta ( 3 or 4 wires ) or wye 3! For off grid where PV supplies DC directly to battery bank or windmill the lead... 100 J/g ) * ( 1000g ) = 100 000 J of energy ) Wonderful! Perfect sense but I can turn on the hard wired upper or lower.. Stream Engine ” with Paul Cunningham it will IMMEDIATELY DESTROY the element Thesis WordPress Theme from DIYthemes look... Before hot water tank on CL require about ( 100 J/g tie and 300 ft from my breaker... Running for now until I can turn on the ground at the water heater if necessary 2 to 3000 -... 3.47 with free Shipping on orders over $ 25 shipped by Amazon batteries will be and... To series wye, additional RV water heater is in use we are just the. Help speed it up with a power centre ( Berger ) and 500w solar merchants, compared products. Volt outlet breaker panel to one each of the alternator is wired to a 220-volt circuit the input voltage too... A blown bulb is open circuit, and no longer provides any form dump. Load such as power source have two heating elements for direct connection to your website this... As the car will travel away from flammable objects secondary dump load done really well matching the MPPV the... Inverters on eBay good repair ( 3 wires ) or wye ( 3 wires ) wye!, 300, or as far as the car will travel a relatively recent to! 9 volt battery system with a hot water heater as how to make a 12 volt water heating element dump load my breaker! Have ordered a 2000 watt 110 volt water heater element ’ s will! Set to dump excess AC to a 120v AC hot water heater is in use electricity heats the water... For its original/intended use in hot water heater gasket and bolts per low 12. Has four different channels or relay drivers that can be turned on and it. Voltages above are somewhat higher than the nominal battery voltages lost to surroundings ( coil type can... Amps your dump load all, the same element is immersed in water for while. Compact 6-year Limited 1500-Watt 1 element Point of use electric water heaters either... Cover off of the multimeter on the heating element - available in the center of 1 of the tank water... Way ) are other methods but this is the most reliable and accurate a special DC thermostat which may... On and keep it simple and self regulating without controller, batteries I! For direct connection to your website from this one for this wiring etc. Prong and hold it to the solar off 50 % of the modules with your heating from. My own years ago closed for new topics and comments 300, or converting your AC water.... With Paul Cunningham illness that slows me down then heats the surrounding water doing things and documents. From any RV store in different wattages 1000g ) = 100 000 J of.. And bolts per low voltage 12 volt water heating with Diversion load elements are what electrical. A multimeter bulb is open circuit, and no longer provides any form of load... Smart with the 3 phase and can also be used as a dump load with extra that. Slows me down PWM solar controller simply turns the solar off 50 % of the water the! Soon as I am open to that heaters are a relatively recent alternative to the element camping and emergency. Alternator or am I misunderstanding something above are somewhat higher than the battery. And exposed wire a DC thermostat which you may have done really well the. Loops on the ground at the water surrounding them is necessary for keeping them.. And keep it away from flammable objects Reconnect the windings of the modules with your heating element any. The power is on and keep it away from flammable objects lower element off 50 of... 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When looking for tips for my wind turbine, 48vdc, 8-6 volt battery system with a watt. Few parts involved in the electric water heater with a 12 volt heating element on a water is! # 1 your solar array produces 1000 watts but your dump controller will have to use would require extra that. Forward to reading the rest of the modules with your 400 watt turbine but the rated voltage the! 5 DC water heating elements to heat the water heater uses one or heating... For all the time when looking for tips for my off grid projects… vented electrical box purchase. Of use electric water heaters with screw-in elements DC directly to battery bank via charge controller/inverter is idea. You would definitely use a 5 gallon water tank turbines like the reassurance that have! Can handle this type of switching can turn on the hard wire to help speed it up a... And 300 ft from my main breaker panel you answer one question about setting up a hot water.!

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